събота, юли 09, 2005

Otgovor do Srbina

stevanjak wrote:

> Blgar,
>
> Your ingnorance is amusing. Is that all what one can expect from Bayo
> Ganje (aka what is yours is actually rightfully mine). Right?
>
You did not answer any of my questions

Not one.
Have you learn Macedonian and Serbian Grammar?
Have you learn about Macedonian customs and folklore?
Have you learn Slavic Grammar?
Have you learn for whom Macedonians vote for church?
Have you learn for whom Macedonians vote on 1908 elections?
Have you learn who is Gligor Sokolovich/Lamevich?
in Macedonia?
Did you read Carnegie Report?
Do you know that ALL Macedonia Voevodas were Bulgarian from Macedonia (not
from Serbia proper :-) ).
Did you see how Macedonians met Bulgarian Army in 1941 (see on
macedonia.sarmadzhiev.com)?

Do you know why in Macedonia had virtually no Serbian schools and paritet of
Bulgarian and Serbian one?
//spare us the crap the Turks are guilty,
did they alter the Macedonian dialect to be same as Bulgarian? :-)//

Do you know Ilinden uprising
Do you know VMRO?
Do you know why Serbian need colonizers in Macedonia?
Do you know King Alexander slapping of the girl from Kumanovo and why?
Do you know why 90 years Serbian were not able to assimilate Macedonians?
Do you know why Morava is called Bulgarian Morava?
Do you know why Albanians called Macedonians Bulgars and did not have word
for Macedonians?
Do you know why 30 000 Bulgarians were killed in Goli Otok after 1944?
Do you know why ~ 800 000 Macedonians from Vardar and Aegean Macedonia
immigrate in Bulgaria?
Do you know why today in Macedonia people understand Bulgarian and graduate
from Bulgarian universities better then Serbian although all books and
textbooks in libraries and Macedonians universities are in Serbian?

and so on, so on ...


> You say: "What is the name of Morava?
> May be Bulgarian Morava, no?
> Why it was called Bulgarian Morava? "


> There is another Morava and another Moravska area in Europe. Can you
> guess where?
> Did you happen to know why in the same region (Checz) you have toponyms
> (place names) like Srpske Katovice, Srbi, Srbsko etc.
> Of course you dont know. If you knew you would keep quiet.
> Morava is a pure slavic toponym and has nothing to do with you UYGURS.
>
Hahaha

So the Turks chase Serbians from Chez Moravia?
Are you for real?

Or again you found your claims baseless so let avert :-)
After all you said Kosovo (in Balkans I believe) and Morava (obviously you
meant Chez)
The name of the river is Bulgarian Morava - plain and square.
Take big glass of water and you may absorbate that inforamtion.

> Then another pearl: "From Kosovo, servian, from Kosovo - not from
> Macedonia. "
>
> The Serbian migration under Patriarch Charnoyevich included population
> from Vardar valley as well. The chief military commander of the Serbs
> at that time was general Jovan Monastirlija.
> Bother to guess where was we he from?

You will tell us of course :-).

> Do you know why austrian emperor Leopold granting privileges to the
> Serbs (after Great Migration, 1691) states the following:
> " RASCIANI per Hungariam, Sclavoniam, Illyriam, Missiam, Albaniam,
> Graeciam, Bulgariam, Herzegoviam, Dalmatiam, Podgoriam, Jenopoliam..."
> (Privilegia, 1691, May 18, p 10, 12)
>
> According to Leopold Serbs live in Bulgaria as well. Bulgaria is only
> geographical notion for the emperor. Was Leopold all "ill-informed"???


Sure,
According to the above also in Greece and Albania and Bulgaria - Serbians was living. You won't doubt Leopold information, right? :-)


> You say: "My point is - Serbian "Voevodas" was not welcome and almost
> all of them (5)
> came from Serbia, and operate in Kosovo border region where Serbian and
>
> Serboman villages were located (now the only survive Serbians are in
> Kumanovo)."
>
> Let me feel you knowledge gap one more time,
>
> The local cheta commanders were as follows; Spasa Garda Pavlovic
> (Prilep), Jovan Stanojkovic Dovezenski (Dovezenci, Kumanovo), Mihailo
> Josifovic (Makedonski Brod), Micko Krstic Pavlovski (Leunovo, Struski
> Drimkol), Jovan Babunski (Martinci, Veles), Doksim Mihailovic
> (Tetovo), Gligor Sokolovic (Nebregovo, Prilep).
> Majority of them were locals. BORN AND RAISED IN POVARDARJE.

OK they were not 5 - they were 8.
My bad :-).

> And for all those that came from Serbia proper, YES CUDOS TO THEM
> becuse they came to help their serbian brothers and that's why they
> live in our memory!

May be because no enough "Serbians" lived in Macedonia :-)

> Then follows another blunder of yours: "Maps and census in Macedonia
> are official documents of the States that made
> them. Those are State-sponsored, usually from the Great Powers."
>
> Finally we agree, like I said, maps and censa are the reflection of an
> individual or group opinion and interests. THEY ARE NOT POSITIVE
> PROOFS.

Sure.
They all wrong. They found - Bulgarians, Greeks, Vlahs, Arnauts and
Serbians (in Kosovo) but of course they are wrong because they did not suit
you.

>
> I can quote, for example, the following; Pat Gordon, english geographer
> in his work (Geography anatomize'd, VIII edition, London 1719, p179)
> states the following:
> "In Servia chief towns are: Scopia, Gustandil, Viddin, Nissa, Jagdon,
> Belgrade, Bracco, Prisren."
>
> Does this make him right? Think twice before you write....

Sure.
May be from London it was true. See the Austrian reports about Karposh and
Stoil in 1700 and Nish defence.
And also the immigrants from Vidin area, afther Chiprovo uprising 1688-90
are still living in Banat (Hungary and Romania) and guess what - they are
all Bulgarians :-)

> Next you say: "... and Greeks also were Rayah (because Osmans put whole
> bunch of them in
> Macedonian censuses) ... "
>
> That's where you show again, your ignorance of course.
>
> Greeks had considerable economic power and religious authority. Greeks
> had Patriarchate of Constantinople. The foundation of Egzarchate was
> with the intention of weakening the influence of Patriarchate. Egzarchy
> was formed with the ferman of Ottoman Padishah in 1870.

Were they Rayah or not?
Were they convenient to the Turks or not?
Why Turks all them to have such power?
Why not Bulgarize them as they did with "Serbians" :-)
Do not ever forget HUGE junk of Serbians became Musilmans, and they efectively rule Bosna and Sandjak.

> As an american historian Ferdinand Schevill says in his book ("A
> History Of the Balkans", New York, 1921, p386):
> "Since the much buffetted padishah had no reason to love the ever
> rebellious Greeks better then the hitherto submissive Bulgars, he
> yielded after the usual wearisome procrastinations, and in 1870
> published the firman which established an independent Bulgarian
> church........The head of the Greek church did not even hesitate to
> issue a declaration of war in the form of a solemn excommunication of
> the new Bulgar church, called into being, it is curious to reflect, by
> an act of grace of the Moslem calif. "

As you can imagine,
Constantinopole Patriarh did not recognize at first Serbian Church as well.
So Bulgarian Tyrnovo Patriarh did rykopolojil Serbian patriarh.
Bulgarian Exarh was rykopolojen from Greek Patriarh of Antiohia,

Also just for the record,
Bulgarian Ohrid Archiepiscopy was demolish also by ferman
and Bulgarian Exarchiate is descendant on that Bulgarian church (unlawfully diminish)

> As you see everything is in the books, you just need to open and read.
> Then you say: " As for Marko Kralevich - in Bulgaria he is known as
> Krali Marko, and he is
> heroe even in the Thrace and Northern Bulgaria.
> This does not make us "Serbians" "
>
> Of course he is a hero in Thrace in N Bulgaria, the simple fact is,
> Bulgars didnt have one so they had to borrow (steal) someone else's
> heritage!

So can you tell me how Ventian Dodj call in corespondency Marko?
I will help you, Bulgarian king :-).

> In an artifical "nation", created by the grace of russian emperor, of
> course there are no heros but only beggars....

My nation is not called Servian ...
And is quite older then any Serbian could dream his people are :-).
you have not even got the state before Bulgars ruled you and appoint the Knjaz :-).
Not to mention who baptize Serbia :-).

> Finally, one of your last pearls: " know a lot of Serbians, and all
> they neglet Macedonians, look on them from
> above. Srbjancite even call fellow "Serbians" from Pirot with you know
> how. "

It is today's case.
Go in Belgrade and see for yourself.
Or you can read Borba,
- search the archive for Pirot and Bulgarin.
I as well post one article from that newspaper here.

>
> Finally let's conclude, with you saying:
> "Tell us about Ilinden,
> Why ALL Voevodas were Bulgarian?
> Why ALL Schools in Macedonia were Bulgarian or Greek? "
>
> That's what you say, but facts are stubborn and they speak different
> story.
>
> Majority of the schools before 1870 were SERBIAN and, of course, all of
> those were soon closed after the Egzarchy was introduced in 1870's.
>
> Wasn't Ljubomir Miletich, the founder of "Macedonian Scientific
> Institute" a son of one of those teachers (from Novi Sad, Vojvodina).
> The one that "discovered" his bulgarian ancestry in his later age???
>

Hahahhahaha
Sure schools were Serbian.
Ask Greeks they will tell you.
And Churches too were Serbian :-).


> Again, the more we continue this conversation the more pain you will
> feel my friend. Wisen up and run before its too late...

You did not answer any of my questions

Not one.
Have you learn Macedonian and Serbian Grammar?
Have you learn about Macedonian customs and folklore?
Have you learn Slavic Grammar?
Have you learn for whom Macedonians vote for church?
Have you learn for whom Macedonians vote on 1908 elections?
Have you learn who is Gligor Sokolovich/Lamevich?
in Macedonia?
Did you read Carnegie Report?
Do you know that ALL Macedonia Voevodas were Bulgarian from Macedonia (not
from Serbia proper :-) ).
Did you see how Macedonians met Bulgarian Army in 1941 (see on
macedonia.sarmadzhiev.com)?

Do you know why in Macedonia had virtually no Serbian schools and paritet of
Bulgarian and Serbian one?
//spare us the crap the Turks are guilty,
did they alter the Macedonian dialect to be same as Bulgarian? :-)//

Do you know Ilinden uprising
Do you know VMRO?
Do you know why Serbian need colonizers in Macedonia?
Do you know King Alexander slapping of the girl from Kumanovo and why?
Do you know why 90 years Serbian were not able to assimilate Macedonians?
Do you know why Morava is called Bulgarian Morava?
Do you know why Albanians called Macedonians Bulgars and did not have word
for Macedonians?
Do you know why 30 000 Bulgarians were killed in Goli Otok after 1944?
Do you know why ~ 800 000 Macedonians from Vardar and Aegean Macedonia
immigrate in Bulgaria?
Do you know why today in Macedonia people understand Bulgarian and graduate
from Bulgarian universities better then Serbian although all books and
textbooks in libraries and Macedonians universities are in Serbian?

and so on, so on ...

1 Comments:

At 4:43 пр.об., Blogger Learn Macedonian said...

http://learnmacedonian.blogspot.com/

 

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